Alice's reviews

[weglarz]

I'm not posting this on Blurt since the comment section there tends to degenerate quickly.  But Alice just posted a review there of Chicken Charlie's.  The first comment is a rant about Alice supporting factory farming.  Alice's views on factory farming (and plenty of others' views) are well-discussed in "Guilt-Free Food" and Suzanne's post on Omnivore (RIP) about it.  I don't mean to rehash that.  What I'm interested in is why people complain about Alice and factory farming sometimes but only sometimes and why people (almost?) never complain about Suzanne and factory farming. 

To be clear: I am not saying people should or shouldn't complain about factory farming.  I'm just puzzled because people on Blurt and in the letters to 7D sometimes write really nasty things about Alice's support for cheap, factory-farmed food--Val's Wild Tomato, QTee's, Chicken Charlie's--but other times--Shelburne Steakhouse, New England Barbeque Festival, 99 Asian Market--just enthuse about the food.  Even though cheap meat is almost always factory farmed meat.  And I'm puzzled because, if I remember correctly, Suzanne never or almost never gets picked on for enthusing about cheap, factory-farmed food.  Certainly, Suzanne doesn't get picked on to the extent Alice does.

What's going on here?

[Morganna]

I thought Suzanne was pretty down on factory farmed stuff...

At the risk of really opening myself up to hostility...

I don't avoid factory farmed food because I can't afford to.  Well, I can't afford to and still eat the way I prefer to eat.  I bought a side of grass fed local Vermont beef a year and a bit ago.  I have a few pieces of it left, but most of it is gone now.  I can't afford the buy another side this year, so I am buying meat at Shaw's.  Perhaps that says something about me, and the things I'm willing to change in my life.  But honestly, people don't know what other things I've changed, or what other sacrifices I've made, so they really have no right to judge me for my willingness to eat a McDonalds, or to buy ground beef for cheap at Shaw's.

So it annoys me when food reviewers are dinged for eating places that cater to people who can't afford to eat local meat all the time.

I have no idea why Alice seems to get more flack than Suzanne, though.  Generally I avoid reading the comments because they usually just get right up my nose.

[weglarz]

I thought Suzanne was pretty down on factory farmed stuff...

Right.  Maybe part of the differing treatment of Suzanne and Alice is just that Suzanne is visibly (audibly?) down on factory farms and Alice isn't.  And for whatever reason people don't fuss about factory farming when the food critic has fussed about it herself even if the menu has the sort of factory farmed food that Alice gets ripped for.

[Suzanne Podhaizer]

Funny that I've never actually thought about it that way! I honestly think the main difference is that the "Alice Eats" series is posted on the web, while my stories mostly show up in the paper, and writing a letter to the editor is a bigger commitment than commenting on Blurt.

But, I think the second factor is the glee with which Alice seeks out and writes about spots that serve fare grown and raised in "unsustainable" ways. It seems that people who care deeply about environmental and ethical issues around food find her pieces galling. 

The terms of my job include reviewing new restaurants that open in our circulation area, and I must do so whether or not they serve the kind of food that I would choose to eat at home. When there is a good reason to do so, I try to mention the provenance of ingredients. But, I think that most people are more willing than I am to eat conventional meat, and possibly feel that I mention my localvore tendencies too often.

[tonyo]

Maybe if some of the "local' farms and "local" stores were more realistic in their prices, more people would support their businesses.  Don't get me wrong, I shop at farmer's markets, single unit grocery stores, and chain supermarkets.  Is local ALWAYS best ?  No, quite simply it is not.  Are some local items fantastic ?  You bet.  I went out to purchase a few items today and was comparing prices.  A local bone in chicken breast at a supermarket (Price Chopper) was $6.99 / pound while the "commercial" bone in chicken breast is often available for $1.99.  So if you want this particular item, you will pay THREE AND A HALF TIMES THE PRICE for local chicken.  Yes, the local chicken in it's brief lifespan may have had a more cheerful existence and if you are a fairly well versed cook, you will likely get a better final product with the local bird. However, 3.5 times, in this case, is a bit ridiculous.  I am not a chicken farmer, but I wonder what the margin is on that item   I am a trueblooded Capitalist, and sincerely think that local farmers (produce/meat/poultry) would be more profitable if they gave up just a bit of margin.  For example, local farmstand corn is about $5.50 / dozen and supermarket corn (whether local or regional) is around $4.50, a minimal difference.  Some of the farmers should take a look at their pricing structures and factor in the undeniable fact that they have ZERO distribution cost in bringing the product to market (when you buy direct at a farmstand or farmer's market).  I will support local farmers when it makes sense financially and the product is of sound quality.  I will not however, be extorted by a movement that takes advantage of the consumer as clearly is the case in some instances.  If you buy strictly based on the provenance of an item, I wonder how you live without citrus, shellfish, great wine, coffee, and many other items that are not native to Vermont...................

[Morganna]

I heard about a book, or an article or something, on VPR a long while ago. A person (can't even remember if it was a man or a woman) tried to do only local foods for a year, but gave him/herself a pass on coffee.  I think he/she also made the distance "100 miles" as local, or something like that, but I can't remember for sure.  It sounded like an awful lot of work on top of the higher prices.

[Margot Harrison]

Alice did defend factory farming in the very first piece she wrote for Seven Days: http://www.7dvt.com/2007/guilt-free-food.

But I agree, the comments are getting old. At this point, people who refuse to eat factory-farmed meat are going to know they won't like many of the places Alice likes.

Morganna, I know where you're coming from. I buy mainly local meat, but then, I don't eat a ton of meat, so I'm OK with splurging on it. I have, however, been taken to task for buying VT Smoke & Cure sausage, getting takeout from M-Saigon, etc. I was raised to eat very healthily (or "consciously" as people like to say now), which led me to take rebellious pleasure in fast food ... and for that reason, I really like Alice's more downscale write-ups. Who would've known the brisket at the Price Chopper deli was so delicious? (But not cruelty free. I know, I know.)

[weglarz]

Maybe if some of the "local' farms and "local" stores were more realistic in their prices, more people would support their businesses.  ...  I will support local farmers when it makes sense financially and the product is of sound quality.  I will not however, be extorted by a movement that takes advantage of the consumer as clearly is the case in some instances.  If you buy strictly based on the provenance of an item, I wonder how you live without citrus, shellfish, great wine, coffee, and many other items that are not native to Vermont...................

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some extortion, but do you have particular examples in mind?

On the general theme of local being too expensive, Ben Hewitt's book about food in Hardwick--too expensive for most people in Hardwick to buy--is great.

I heard about a book, or an article or something, on VPR a long while ago. A person (can't even remember if it was a man or a woman) tried to do only local foods for a year, but gave him/herself a pass on coffee.  I think he/she also made the distance "100 miles" as local, or something like that, but I can't remember for sure.  It sounded like an awful lot of work on top of the higher prices.

That sounds like this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Plenty-Eating-Locally-100-Mile-Diet/dp/0307347338/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282077130&sr=1-6

And that diet did sound like a lot of work!

[Morganna]

I heard about a book, or an article or something, on VPR a long while ago. A person (can't even remember if it was a man or a woman) tried to do only local foods for a year, but gave him/herself a pass on coffee.  I think he/she also made the distance "100 miles" as local, or something like that, but I can't remember for sure.  It sounded like an awful lot of work on top of the higher prices.

That sounds like this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Plenty-Eating-Locally-100-Mile-Diet/dp/0307347338/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282077130&sr=1-6

And that diet did sound like a lot of work!

That does sound like it, but the guy they interviewed lived in Vermont.  So I don't think that's it.

[tonyo]

Before you grab your pitchforks to run me out of town and sentence me to a life of eating Wilson's hot dogs and Smithfield Lean Generation pork, I am all for supporting local farmers (animal and produce) BUT (there's always a but isn't there......), I would be interested to learn the cost of bringing two chickens to market: Chicken 1 : A local bird (say Misty Knoll) compared to Chicken 2: Tyson or Perdue.  Obviously there is going to be a difference (cost of feed, labor, processing, transportation etc.). I would hope that the RETAILER would play a role in keeping the cost of the Misty Knoll down (sacrifice margin on this item to TRULY be a proponent of the BUY LOCAL movement).  In my business (vending machines), we place a much smaller markup on local items to help increase sales NOT PROFIT.  This is my thought process: farms and local producers need assistance in the sale process to encourage the end user to purchase their item.  The local farmer has some advantages (transportation, fewer steps from source to table, possibly inexpensive labor from family members).  They certainly have disadvantages to overcome (lack of government subsidies, cheaper feed, etc.).   So, if I stop at a local farm, buy a dozen corn just a few feet from the field it was grown in from a stand staffed by a 12 year old family member versus a dozen corn grown in Florida, picked by a 32 year old employee of the farm, that is placed on a tractor trailer driven by a Teamster making union wages and full benefits, that is delivered to a produce broker in Hoboken, NJ after which it is sent to the central warehouse of Price Chopper in Schenectady, NY where it is handled by another employee, loaded on to another truck, driven to South Burlington, Vermont where it is sold in a Supermarket with a General Manager, a produce manager, a produce clerk, a cashier, and a bagger, you wonder why the cost of a dozen corn at Price Chopper wouldn't be $30.  In this case, the local corn is affordable, better quality, and simply makes sense.  We all win !   

[Elizabeth Rossano]

Alice just really likes food for food's sake.  She loves whatever tastes good.  If it's local/organic, that's great!  She thoroughly enjoyed a plethora of fresh, local food a couple weeks ago at the Vermont Fresh Forum.  Take this video as evidence of her love of the taste of Vermont: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23WlvKcTKEg

[weglarz]

Before you grab your pitchforks to run me out of town and sentence me to a life of eating Wilson's hot dogs and Smithfield Lean Generation pork, I am all for supporting local farmers (animal and produce) BUT (there's always a but isn't there......), I would be interested to learn the cost of bringing two chickens to market: Chicken 1 : A local bird (say Misty Knoll) compared to Chicken 2: Tyson or Perdue. 

This sounds like a great article for 7Days.

I hope you didn't feel attacked by my last message, Tonyo.  I was just wondering whether you had specifics in mind.  People commonly complain that local food costs more and some of it does, but why it costs more is rarely spelled out.

[weglarz]

Alice just really likes food for food's sake.  She loves whatever tastes good.  If it's local/organic, that's great!  ...

This raises another weird point about the reception of Alice's articles: complaints about her work tend to be complaints about support for factory farming or complaints about support for unhealthy food.  In my recollection, no one complains that Alice supports non-organic or non-local food.

[Morganna]

Isn't complaining about supporting factory food the same thing as complaining about not supporting local or organic food?

[weglarz]

Isn't complaining about supporting factory food the same thing as complaining about not supporting local or organic food?

I don't think so.

"Local" and "organic" are terms that cover produce and livestock.  Factory farming only applies to livestock.  And when it comes to livestock, you can certainly have a local factory farm.  Shadow Cross Eggs is an example of a factory farm that's quite close to where I live.  When I buy their eggs, I'm buying from a local factory farm.

And organic livestock farms can be factory farms, too, places where there's extremely high stocking density and no time outdoors.  Some of the massive dairies in the West are examples.  Partly, the possibility of organic factory farms comes from lax enforcement of organic laws, but partly it comes from the laws themselves.