Raw milk?

[Undead Molly]

Can restaurants serve uncooked raw milk?

[dtp123]

As far as I know restaurants are not allowed to have raw milk on premise. There may be a loophole like it can't be bought or sold. So if they are giving it away it might be OK, but I'm not a lawyer.

[Morganna]

I'm pretty sure restaurants can't sell raw milk.

Here's an article from 2008 about raw milk sales in Vermont:
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080316/NEWS01/803160404/1002/NEWS01

"Elliot, though, says his farming ambitions are tethered to a Vermont law that limits raw milk sales to 25 quarts per day."  So there's a law that limits farms even being able to sell it.  

Here's a website that talks about the specific Vermont statutes:
http://www.realmilk.com/milk-laws-5.html#vt

Edited to ad:
Why do you want raw milk?

[Undead Molly]

Actually I specifically do not want raw milk. Bluebird Tavern had tweeted a link to an article about the raw milk debate and it got me to wondering if they (or any restaurant) could serve it uncooked without a warning. I know it's probably fine for most people and I drank it myself many times when I was little, but my immune system is severely compromised due to medications I have to take. I have to be really careful about the potential bacterial load in the foods I eat because my body can't fight such pathogens.

[Morganna]

I'm pretty sure they can't.  For precisely the reasons you've cited.  It can be a danger to those who are immuno-compromised and the FDA has pretty strict controls on it.

[JasonFrishman]

inclusive?
how does one drink milk inclusively?
do you mean allowing everyone to drink it?

i can certainly understand about not drinking raw milk if you are immune compromised; however, I would imagine that well cared for (i mean properly stored, etc; not well loved) raw milk is safe and can be as safe as many of the other potentially bacterially compromised foods that any restaurant would serve. Correct me if i am incorrect, but i would think that some one who is immune compromised would have to be careful about many other things (raw, especially) served in a restaurant. I have a friend who recently got a stomach thing because he ate some raw vegetables from a rest. my point is, i guess, that the potential dangers of raw milk (i believe) have been exaggerated through a long process of media propaganda. with proper care of cows, storage, and transportation, raw milk is safe and immensely more nutritious than store bought, mass produced pasteurized/homogenized milk. 

and i think a whole lot yummier!

that being said - back to selling it in restaurants: i also believe that it is illegal currently to sell.  laws in vermont are changing and recently, dairy farmers have won some legal battles over being able to sell larger quantities. i do hope that restaurants will be allowed to sell it soon!

[Undead Molly]

Yes, immune compromised people do have be careful about many foods. No sushi, I have to order steak and egg dishes cooked well done, I should not eat at salad bars but I do at the Windjammer sometimes, cheeses that contain fragments of uncooked vegetables like the Cabot jalapeno cheddar, moldy cheeses like bleu, unpasteurized cider or other fruit juices, well water, blah, blah, blah. I'm not even supposed to swim in any natural bodies of water. I just didn't know if this was another item I needed to keep an eye out for.

I really didn't mean to spark up the raw milk debate here. I grew up on my maternal family's dairy farm in Waterville, Vermont (which is still owned and operated by my uncle Lyle today) where all of us drank raw milk at times and I don't remember anyone ever getting sick. As I said in an earlier post, I think that raw milk is probably fine for most people. Just not me.

[jaksenlanier]

I'm located in New Mexico and trying to find raw milk. I went to the a health store yesterday and all I could find was Kefir and Straus Organic Milk, which I bought.

[Haylley Johnson]

I'm located in New Mexico and trying to find raw milk. I went to the a health store yesterday and all I could find was Kefir and Straus Organic Milk, which I bought.

After you asked that, I was curious about where to find raw milk myself. I did a bit of hunting and found this place. http://www.pereirapastures.com/index.htm It might not be anywhere near you since New Mexico is pretty big. I found it through a raw milk listing site: http://www.realmilk.com/where4.html#nm

However, I wanted to check up on the site's legitimacy. So I went to the Vermont listing section. Here is the only listing I found for Burlington:

Burlington: Tamarack Hollow Farm, Amanda Andrews, Burlington's New North End, burlingtonrawmilk@gmail.com. $6 a gallon. Customers will have to purchase a glass half gallon jar for $2.00 or bring their own before milking times. Pork, chicken, eggs, vegetables, and herbs will also be available for sale on the farm.

Is this a good place to get raw milk in Burlington? Or is there anywhere else to get raw milk in the Burlington area that is better?

Also, for those of you who know about raw milk, is realmilk.com a good way to find places that provide raw milk? Or is there a better system?

[Undead Molly]

If you use the realmilk.com database to find a farm, I would also just double check with the farm or with the state department of agriculture to make sure it is really a tier II dairy producer. Also, when you buy raw milk from a farm for the first time ask for a tour so you can see for yourself their sanitation routine. Don't be shy!

I wish that there was a more objective, trustworthy source of information about raw milk. I find Realmilk.com sort of scary because they state all kinds of wild things as if they were fact, with no citations or bibliography leading to proof of any kind. Every raw milk site I've ever seen just repeats ad nauseum the same crazy and easily disproved assertions of the Weston Price foundation over and over again with no clinical or statistical evidence offered. Like:

Furthermore, in many children not fortunate enough to have started life on raw milk, raw milk given later in childhood has cured autism, behavior problems, frequent infections, deafness, asthma and allergies and other serious health conditions.

Pasteurization destroys enzymes, diminishes vitamin content, denatures fragile milk proteins, destroys vitamins C, B12 and B6, kills beneficial bacteria, promotes pathogens and is associated with allergies, increased tooth decay, colic in infants, growth problems in children, osteoporosis, arthritis, heart disease and cancer.

Today's milk is accused of causing everything from allergies to heart disease to cancer, but when Americans could buy Real Milk, these diseases were rare.

That is all so insane. Raw milk cures autism? Pasteurized milk causes cancer?

And in their news, updates, and blog they never, ever, not once mention or address any of the recent food poisoning outbreaks caused by raw milk. They report exclusively stories that cast a glowing light on raw milk or ones which demonize the government (even though it is not only governmental agencies that oppose the availability of raw milk - for example, the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association, National Milk Producers Association, World Health Organization, International Dairy Foods Association, Center for Science in the Public Interest, Center for Foodborne Illness, and the American Veterinary Medical Association, just to name a few).

Here's some info about a few raw milk food poisoning outbreaks this year:
24 sick so far and two children hospitalized in Colorado
Eight sick and two children hospitalized in Minnesota
Two people hospitalized in Delaware
15 sick in Utah
8 sick in Michigan
5 sick in New York

[steve.justis@gmail.com]

Act No. 62

(H.125)

Agriculture; dairy operations; sale of unpasteurized (raw) milk

This act regulates the sale of unpasteurized (raw) cow, goat, sheep, or other milk for fluid consumption. This act does not apply to milk that will be pasteurized or to raw milk used in manufacturing dairy products other than fluid milk.

Under previous law, the daily sale of up to 50 quarts (12.5 gallons) of unpasteurized milk was permitted without regulation. This act allows daily sales of up to 40 gallons (160 quarts) of raw milk but imposes new regulations. All producers must sell raw milk only from the farm, must meet basic sanitary standards, must properly label milk, must permit customer inspection of the production facilities, and must maintain certain records.

The act divides raw milk production into two tiers. The first tier covers the sale of 12.5 gallons or fewer in a single day. Producers operating under this tier are only required to meet the standards listed in the paragraph above. Farmers intending to sell 12.6 to 40 gallons per day and farmers intending to deliver raw milk must meet the requirements of tier two, which include registration with the agency of agriculture, food and markets, inspection by the agency, bottling standards, and twice monthly milk testing.

Only tier-two producers may deliver milk directly to a customer at the customer's home or to a refrigerated unit at the customer's home. The farmer may only deliver milk that has been purchased in advance of the delivery.

Raw milk producers are not required to obtain a handler's license for the sale of their raw milk.

Date Signed by the Governor: June 8, 2009

Effective Date: July 1, 2009